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Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Glorious Lord of Chaos | It is, but because that weapon strength does not translate into aoe it is not as beneficial as it sounds. He is already very good at dueling as it is. | |
Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-!@# comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any! The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out. That is why we need feminism, and why I am not simply egalitarian. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Skillful Swordmaster | Started with Loremaster campaign. Is Teclis a god ? Managed to get some really good items in the first few turns. | |
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/12 14:57:24 | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Decrepit Dakkanaut | I've not got far into Tickles' campaign, but I can't deny there's something satisfying about peppering Lizardmen with bolts and arrows as they run forward, then catching 2/3 of their remaining strength mid-charge in a Net of Amyntok at point-blank range. | |
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen. Excerpt from 'Seeress of Kell', Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings. My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness 'You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell.' Iron - Within Temptation | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Fate-Controlling Farseer |
When I had his 18/20 stack get hit by 3 maxxed stacks of Skaven, and I absolutely obliterated them... yeah, I felt like a god. | |
1st Legion Dark Angels Eldar Craftworld Eth-Kariel Spear of Kornous - High Elf Expeditionary Army (Retired) | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Highlord of Terra | Teclis is a win button, and he only needs the basic troops from a tier 1 barracks to enable this. I have been very impressed with how effectively high elf spears can hold the line while archers mass kills. And this was without Net of Amyntok. Shield of Saphery and Lifebloom extend the pain into far later into the game even for basic troops. Every time Teclis casts, which is a lot, the entire army gets a 10% damage resistance and a top up heal. I never overcast, just stack more spells, usually crows on hordes and withering on anything tough. Net isnt really necessary past braking up the initial charge. Why iobilise a target and peper it with arrows when you can stick it with spears while peppering it with arrows, while being buffed while crows are pecking at the nasties. Teclis spellpower is so good I have developed my own strategy for him. With every other lord I imediately get the blue skills, +10% movement then four of whatever to unlock the bridging skill and then lightning strike. The single most important skill. Then I buy any upkeep reduction on the campaign skill line until I even think about taking anything else. To me the Lord's first job is to lead the army, that means logistics matter, movement matters, and th ability to attack on your own terms matters, Buffing a lord doesnt matter, if I need spells, hire a wizard, need a tough fighter, hire a hero. In my Balthasar Gelt playthrough I did this, and was 14th level before I had anything to cast other than the starting spell, but it was worth it. His magic ability was unlocked immediately after of course. With Teclis the options are so nice I decided to throw my approach out the window and go straight for the spells. I kicked so much arse he leveled up to get a all the spells, and a select number of magic buffs and all the blue skills I normally take by turn 50. | |
n'oublie jamais It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. | ||
Subject: Re:Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Executing Exarch |
Sometimes. I've got a Bretonnia playthrough that I keep meaning to start back up and finish. I owned the Empire capitol (the Empire had gotten kicked out of it, and someone had left it razed, so I moved in; note that the Empire still existed in that game), and had fully built up the fortification levels on it. I had a full strength army garrisoning it, and it got attacked by two stacks of Chaos Warriors (can't remember which lords). I hit Auto-Resolve just because... And the Chaos Warriors took zero casualties wiping out my army. I keep meaning to go back to an earlier save from that game, but haven't ever quite gotten around to it. | |
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Glorious Lord of Chaos | I usually don't go for lightning strike (except for horde armies who badly need it to compete with fortified factions). It is often buried too deep in the tree and unit buffs are too strong to neglect. | |
Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-!@# comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any! The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out. That is why we need feminism, and why I am not simply egalitarian. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Member of the Ethereal Council | I actually follow the opposite XD I generally take the campaign bonuses first, especially to reduce the cost of my armies, and my style makes Lightning Battles something I use frequently (my large full stacks usually have quarter or half stacks in tow with supporting troops). | |
I hope this adorable bunny makes up for my being a jerk. Bohemond I was like a real life Stannis Baratheon, except he didn't set people on fire... As far as I know. | ||
Subject: Re:Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
[DCM] Ambushing Wargor | Ya, I feel like I’m hamstringing my early turns of the campaign if I’m not taking the increased movement, public order bonuses, reduced recruitment, improved replenishment and reduced upkeep skills. You can’t see the exact numbers of how it benefits your economy, but it pays dividends in a major way. Much more so that getting a new spell, ability or making your units fight a little better. For me, the unit improvement skills are usually tertiary, preceded by the characterunique campaign skills that lockout the damage skills, then mount skills, then lastly individual skills to improve the characters combat ability. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/13 05:39:36 'Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning.' - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead. 'Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did.' -Thostos Bladestorm | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf | It depends how good the campaign boosts are vs the combat boosts. -20% upkeep for saurus? Hell yes. -3% recruitment? Not so much. I tend not to bother with public order bonuses as I don't find them to useful, I spend more time on the front foot than sitting in my own provinces. Usually public order problems pop up when I'm off away from home anyway. I feel like my Kroq Gar campaign has tipped to the point of becoming boring. Had a bit of a tough fight taking the jungles of the southlands but in a handful of turns I managed to sweep over the last of the skaven and now suddenly my economy is awesome. | |
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut | Hello. I think that what you pick skill wise depends on your difficulty. On a high difficulty you need a lot more public order money ext. but on a lower difficulty a powerful lord can just claim the map. | |
I need to go to work every day. Millions of people on welfare depend on me. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Highlord of Terra |
Exactly this. There are three critical skills on most campaign lines. any movement boost, any upkeep reduction and lightning strike. AFAIK all lords get lightning strike and in the same place. It really helps to carve off individual stacks, not only because you can fight your opponents piecemeal, but also the surprise bonus, and the ability to go through post battle multiple times, which helps with recovery leveling and income. The whole is worth less than the sum of its parts and lightning strike amongst other things farms exp for your lords and armies. As for upkeep, its the most important stat in the game. Your units become 'underpriced' which is always good in any incarnation of warhammer. Now battle skills also make your units underpriced for what they do, but those boosts are on a per unit basis, painting the lord into a corner as to how to stack their army. Upkeep reduction applies to everything and does so automatically. As for movement range, that extra 10% really helps reach a castle in time to siege or defend, but it becomes crucial when you are with a large stack facing small (normally goblin or marauder) stacks that want to refuse battle. Without it you will be futilely chasing them, with it you can run them down. I don't tend to buy recruitment cost reduction as its a one off payment I am happy to swallow, though for defensive lords it is worthwhile. In Warhammer 2 I need more than one defensive lord because of the ritual battles. In Warhammer 1 I would just have one to deal with events. This lord I would give recruitment cost reduction to, maxed out, and would buy units and ferry them to the front line lords if there was nothing else he needed doing at the time. This helps as some units are only available in the most built up provinces. So I might have a lord with march buff, three pips in recruit cost reduction and use him as a deliverer of steam tanks or demigryphs to my legendary lords on the frontier. This lord will also get lightning strike and upkeep reduction as and when, because he has a small army of his own on top of what he is delivering. If needs be he to will be on the front line and a new lord will be recruited for homeland defence. Its very common for my armies to have no yellow or red at all on them. The redux for Warhammer 1 included special abilities for legendary lords from the original game, most of these kick in at level 12, which is perfect because I need the first eleven levels to get the blue campaign line up to lightning strike and three pips of upkeep reduction. Legendary lords get a lot better because of these new skills but it does mean Balthasar Gelt needs even more levels before he begins to do anything more than dribble piss from the sky with that gods awful level 1 spell Metal has. | |
n'oublie jamais It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf | I'm playing on Hard. I find if I take a province and my Lord is still in the land, a rebellion isn't a bad thing because you can just put it down immediately (due to me usually looting and occupying that's what tends to happen). Once my Lord has left the province is when rebellions are annoying because you need to either raise another army to fight it or send one of your Lords back to kill the rebellion. At that point having any public order skills on the Lord isn't helpful because he needed to be camped in the province for it to work. I find it more useful to put up buildings that give public order and tear them down once the public order has stabilised, and in provinces where I don't want my Lord camping for any period I only occupy rather than loot + occupy. The couple of annoying rebellions I've had recently were due to me looting + occupying and then leaving the province while forgetting to put up public order buildings, meaning I had to drag my Lord back from his campaign wasting half a dozen turns to put down the rebellion. In a situation like that having a public order boost on the Lord doesn't really help much because he was out of the province when it hit the fan. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/13 15:39:59 | ||
Subject: Re:Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Highlord of Terra |
CA are realising this and some yellow and red lines now include a specific unit upkeep cost reduction to make them more attractive. Because you have a faction economy as core game mechanic any logistic bonus is naturally worth more than a flat combat bonus. You can also gain the basic yellow line character skills on a dedicated hero level character and add them to your army if you are missing anything major. | |
n'oublie jamais It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Member of the Ethereal Council | I usually grab the recruitment cost reduction only on my main lord who will end up with all the best units. 3% reduction on common troops is nothing, but once you start buying Temple Guards and monstrous creatures you start benefiting from the bonus more. Plus it saves money if after a big battle you need to buy a new half of the army. Other than that though I skip it, because my other lords are garrisons or support armies and their units are all cheap and they get more for me out of the public order bonus. Replenishment is pretty good imo, but not every lord gets that one. I sometimes grab ambush bonuses but I think that's a matter of play style. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/13 19:23:40 I hope this adorable bunny makes up for my being a jerk. Bohemond I was like a real life Stannis Baratheon, except he didn't set people on fire... As far as I know. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf | So does melee attack and weapon strength upgrades transfer over to the mount or am I just wasting my skill points on those ones? Oh yeah, when I'm looking to buy those expensive troops my Lord is usually already levelled up a bit, so they're late skills for me rather than early ones. In my current Kroq Gar campaign I'm up to about turn 60 and Kroq is up to level 26 and I haven't bought a single Temple Guard unit yet. But I don't really lose units quick enough to feel it's worth it. I do like replenishment bonuses, I don't usually get them specifically on Lords unless it's a big bonus for a small investment of skill points, but I try and build buildings and take heroes that gives replenishment bonuses. I love being able to turn around after a tough fight and be ready for another one without having to sit around too long. I'm finding it more important on Hard than I was on Normal because it seems to me the AI is cheating with unrealistic unit recruitment (they lose a battle in their turn, and by my turn somehow they've already recruited a bunch more units?). | |
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Phanobi | I've given in an started downloading the game despite saying I would wait till it went down in price a little. In the meantime I am forcing myself to do a Bretonnian campaign in the first game. They feel like someone took all the aspects of an army that I hate and combined it into one. Weak infantry, lousy ranged capabilities, and so so much cavalry micromanagement. I think I may have to add some mods just to make the playthrough bearable! Regarding skill trees, I tend to focus on making my legendary lords a beast in combat just because I like to see them cut through the enemy army but any other lord I will usually focus on improving the army itself. | |
'All Is Dust!' An Alternate Future Thousand Sons Blog Betraying the Machine God: An Alternate Future Mechanicus Blog One Army, One Month: Alternate Future Rogue Traders | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Glorious Lord of Chaos |
They transfer over. | |
Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-!@# comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any! The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out. That is why we need feminism, and why I am not simply egalitarian. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Highlord of Terra |
3% is nothing, but 15% is a fair bit. Say you have a stack of ten basic troops costing 100 a turn each average, you have saving on that pauper army of 150 gold/turn with full upkeep reduction. That is quite noticable IMHO. Most armies will cost more than that, often much more. Also notice how the skill bonuses and % reductions increase as you invest points. Public order reduction and corruption mitigation got up 1,2,3 as you place points in the skill. Combat bonuses go up 2,4,9 or 3,8,15. Some skills are worth putting only a point in, some you need three for the full payoff. When you are looking at your points in a category to reach the bridging skill, you could place one point in public order and get full effectiveness then three points in recruitment reduction for a major cash discount. Doing the other way around is less points efficient. Also in Warhammer 2 you will need multiple main stacks, more sea movement means more mobile armies, and the need to protect ritual sites and an expanding frontier. If you have an extra lord on his own picking up sea loot you will also have extra upkeep penalty, you need to mitigate that somehow. With four lords a high elf faction is running an upkeep penalty of over 20%, upkeep skills are now not a discount per se but mitigation against spiralling costs.
Upkeep reduction is on the second bar of blue skills, which makes it easier as three upkeep and lightning strike make up the four to unlock the capstone skill, which is normally good, and in Warhammer 2 can include yet more upkeep reduction anyway. Public order bonus is normally in the first block, and those to me are five points of tax, including the bridging skill, to get from +10% movement to lightning strike. Dont get me wrong there are some nice benefits but the army skills and a mount can be awfully tempting, but I stick for the payoff. Public order is a good choice,and I do use it with some lords. My primary lords take attrition reduction though as they must take the fight to the enemy and are more likely to cross corrupted ground. For secondary lords corruption reduction and public rder are both worthwhile, but are situational. You cant necessarily park an army where you need the public order boost, so any bonus is incidental. With high elves the Merchant lord skill which adds to faction wide trade is more appealing as it is always in effect and again works with the factions logistics, trade boosts gain cash which is the same as a cost saving on your army. Warhammer 1 doesnt have any skills like this for lords, and not all benefit anyway. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/14 02:27:06 n'oublie jamais It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Member of the Ethereal Council |
I think the only real consideration is that it's a 3 point investment. I'd actually like it if they evened the bonus out across points (5%/5%/5% instead of 3%/?%/15%). Since you need 4 points in the tier to advance, a 5% bonus just to get up to grabbing Draft Master and the upkeep reduction would be a no brainer I think. As is if I'm only putting 4 points into that first section I'll skip recruitment cost reduction for public order.
I've mostly gotten around this by building garrisons at strategic locations and placing my reserve armies at in centralized areas. I normally only maintain a few full stacks. In my Kroq campaign for example I'm just past turn 90, control all of southern fantasy Africa but I only maintain two full stacks and about a half dozen 3/5 stacks (mostly Skinks + Kroxigors). The only issue I've ever had is when the other AIs intervene on my rituals which is why I have a full stack near my capital (now...). I actually find sea loot to be a must. You get so much damn money (and can pick up multi-turn economic bonuses, including reduced upkeep!) from it that the rewards massively out weight the increased upkeep cost. In comparison I've generally found treasure hunting to not really be worth it unless there's a mission reward for doing it. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/14 02:35:37 I hope this adorable bunny makes up for my being a jerk. Bohemond I was like a real life Stannis Baratheon, except he didn't set people on fire... As far as I know. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Highlord of Terra |
CA are holdouts for this game, they know it is getting fresh people into Total War and is holding its value. It is also still fresh because of its scope and variety. Warhammer 3 will be 2018 at this rate, with final DLC appearing 2019. Bundles for the entire series will arrive then, but all that will still be fresh so no heavy discounts until 2020 I think. I am not waiting that long and in all fairness CA deserve our coin on this one, they have done a fantastic job and obviously love the IP enough to want to cover as much as they possibly can.
At least CA added foot knights, though they call them squires so they count towards the peasant economy limiter. Yes you are forced to have a cavalry focused army, that hurts in sieges especially, and it does need more micro, but the army is fairly simple and solid. You can also squadron up units of knights to have fewer larger blocks of knights, infantry are static and can be ignored and your characters can be joined into a hero squad all doing the same thing. Normally I take a single rigid deployemt of infantry with peasant archers behind, a left wing of cavalry as one unit, a right wing of same, a hero squad and my flyers. I leave the peasants to fight on and micro the four combined units. Even for an oldster like me with crap reflexes it is then manageable. Multiplayer, no, not for me with that army. But it can work well in campaign. You need to work out how many maneuver groups you can handle at once, it will be more than you initially think if you persist. Regarding skill trees, I tend to focus on making my legendary lords a beast in combat just because I like to see them cut through the enemy army but any other lord I will usually focus on improving the army itself. | |
n'oublie jamais It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Phanobi |
Ah you say that but I got the first game free in a bundle about the same time the Wood Elves DLC was released! Either way, CA certainly earned their money this time, I have been wary ever since TW Rome II but it was not the case this time.
Yeah that's how I ended up playing them with the addition of lots of horse archers, I hate fighting against those things so it's a nice change to bug everyone else by peppering them with arrows from a distance! Now that the game finally downloaded I went the easy route and started a Tyrion campaign and I have a feeling I am going to love it until the very end. My playstyle goes very well with the army list, lots of ranks of spearmen, a bit of artillery and a couple of cav units to flank the enemy is my go-to format. I am enjoying taunting the chaos forces that keep popping up and trying to siege my cities and gates, the poor guys don't stand a chance! (He says having only done the first ritual). I sent Tyrion off exploring to the rest of the world so hopefully nothing happens while he is vacationing as it is quite the trip back, looking forward to fighting my first lizardmen... | |
'All Is Dust!' An Alternate Future Thousand Sons Blog Betraying the Machine God: An Alternate Future Mechanicus Blog One Army, One Month: Alternate Future Rogue Traders | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Highlord of Terra | I suck at horse archery. The AI can always string my cavalry along with horse archers, but mine always get caught, even if I leave them with skirmish mode on. Frankly I use one unit of horse archers or equivalent per army, and I am careful how i use them. They are fragile and under perform compared to foot archery. With my crap reflexes I tend to favour an infantry army with very little cavalry also. Its vey effective, and smple to play. Its a vey English way of doing war. Longbows, billmen, handful of knights in royal retainer units, hold the line maul the enemy and use cavalry to mop up. Very efficient, very lethal. It was much harder playing France. High elves play like Medieval 2 England, Empire too after a fashion. Bretonnians play like France, don't get me wrong the French army can win well, even against longbowmen once they knew how to do so. But its a harder learning curve an one I never truly mastered. | |
n'oublie jamais It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf | The only Total War I played prior to TW:W2 was a Bretonnian campaign, got to turn 100 before I quit. I just reloaded that save to give it another shot and realised just how badly I played, lol. Probably just have to start from scratch, at turn 100 I only have 1 Lord at level 15 and a few below level 10. Have too many pathetically weak armies that are costing a huge amount of upkeep. I think when you play Bretonnians you have to aim to confederate quickly but when you do confederate, just disband the armies you inherit otherwise the upkeep will kill you and because you don't have any enemies close by initially you have to go seek out enemies to avoid becoming stagnant. For one I originally said 'recruitment' not 'upkeep' and for two I was partly making a point about the skill point investment. I tend to go for the skills that help the campaign, but depending on the Lord I also like the unit buffs and things that make the Lord tankier (some Lords do great at just wading in to the enemy and having an attached spell caster to drop some AoE on his head). It's also good to keep in mind that winning battles makes you money, skills that let me win a battle and recover in less time ready for the next battle are effectively money makers early on when you would otherwise have to retreat to lick your wounds. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/14 14:06:06 | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut | Never try and move them too much is the trick, the more you click on them the more they stutter step. | |
I need to go to work every day. Millions of people on welfare depend on me. | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf | I never really got the hang of Bretonnia (love them in the table top game, but they seem to have a very arduous campaign). But can't they work as an infantry heavy army if you take Foot Squires, polearms for anti-large, a reliquae for leadership, a couple of paladins on foot for some punch and then a damsel or the fey throwing around buffs/debuffs/heals? You still take knights, but only a couple of units rather than a knight heavy army. I've just tried to start another Bretonnian campaign and the economy is killing me. Everything is so expensive while there's also not a hell of a lot of things giving me money. I seem to spend a lot of time just sitting around waiting to get enough money for a particular upgrade or to beef up my army before I can do anything. The replenishment rate also seems terrible, also spending a lot of turns waiting for my armies to get back up to health and I can't see ways of improving the replenishment rate. Also noticed that magic is much more powerful in Warhammer 2. My Heavens damsel feels completely useless, but a Heavens Skink Priest in Warhammer 2 can do some serious damage. | |
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/10/15 21:01:22 | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader | I found the Brets fairly straight forward after screwing up the initial stages the first time. First thing is farming Orc rebels from the Orc event that usually kicks off at the beginning of the game. This gives chivalry, money and experience. Second is the long grind against Moussilon & beastmen (the latter is more of a recurring problem, while the former somehow generates several armies more or less instantly and can sustain em all on one city. While all this is happening, working on techs for confederation is key, since actually attacking other bretonnians is bad. A takeover of Estalia is useful in here, as they're small and conquer able, and will inevitably attack you eventually. Wood elves are probably going to be a problem- going in early while they're distracted and razing the great tree and whatever cities you can helps a lot. You don't want to let them get to the point where they start confederating and have all those stacks and super-cities pointed in the same direction. By this point the chaos invasion has probably started, so it's useful to send out a pair of armies to hit the chaos stacks after they've wrecked a big city- you don't really want them getting to your borders. After that you've probably got more than enough chivalry to trigger the errantry battle. I've only ever done orcs, as it's easier to get to, and somewhat easier to deal with (less armor and morale) Composition wise, Brets are pretty straight forward- lord, sorceress, mix of 6 infantry, 4 archers, 2 trebuchets, 3 knights on either flank, or one flank and Pegasi. | |
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Heroic Senior Officer | Careful about WE, they could insta confederate in my save and in about 3 turns I went to face 2 armies and 2 cities to fighting 5 armies with 5 cities. | |
Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal Primarchs are a mistake DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey
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Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf | I've not tried farming the Orc raids early on, I typically take Marienburg first because it has that high value port, then squash the Orcs. I don't think the Bretonnian campaign is particularly hard, it's just a slog because the economy is weak and you don't have a real enemy to fight early on. If you want a fight you kind of have to go find one yourself up north or start picking a fight with the various empire factions. By turn 70 or so on my current game I'd confederated all of Bretonnia, gotten enough Chivalry to start the Errantry War and now I'm in a position to start steamrolling everyone, but those first 70 turns weren't an interesting struggle like many other factions. | |
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/16 18:28:44 | ||
Subject: Total War Warhammer 2. | ||
Longtime Dakkanaut | Hello. The Bretonnian campaign is by far the hardest with out any mods or cheating by loading previous saves. I played it on very had and it took me at least 6 trys to win mostly due to the chivalry and end game needing to march to the top right of the map. The best I can tell you unless you do the auto save cheat is have one elite army confederate only if someone is picking a fight with the elves to stop it or you will be involved. Then have a peasant army to save your country from beasmen. Then send your elites to help empire use empire as a buffer for chaos once they are done take over their land and march north if you can. | |
I need to go to work every day. Millions of people on welfare depend on me. | ||
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The recent release of the Grim and the Grave DLC (and attendant freebies) throws up some interesting tactical conundrums for Total War: Warhammer players. For Vampire Count fans, one of the main questions is probably just ‘Can I bring myself to play as anybody other than Bad Dad Vlad now?’ But there are other battlefield concerns for players to muse over as well.
This is a run-down of the various perks, drawbacks and logistics of the new Legendary Lords, additional units, and (briefly) the Regiments of Renown added last week. It’s more Grand Campaign focused than anything else, but some of these thoughts will transfer just fine to a multiplayer setting.
The Empire
May 29, 2019 Total War: Three Kingdoms In Total War: Three Kingdoms, A hero rises as a nation crumbles. With Han dynasty blood flowing through his veins and a heart that beats only for the good of his country, Liu Bei stands unwavering against incredible odds.
Volkmar the Grim
The ‘Grim’ half of the Grim and the Grave release, Volkmar can replace Franz or Gelt as your Legendary Lord, or be recruited as a special army commander at a later date. If you want to do the latter, you need to construct the Temple of Sigmar to unlock him. Chances are you’ll be doing that at some point in an Empire campaign anyway, so that’s not too arduous a task.
If you pick him as Legendary Lord, Volkmar starts with a pair of Flagellant units (one regular, plus the Tattersouls) and a unit of Knights of the Blazing Sun. That makes sense from a flavour point of view since Volkmar is a fervent religious fellow, and also from a mechanical angle because Volkmar’s presence as Legendary Lord reduces the upkeep on Flagellents and boosts their weapon strength by 30%. He gets the same starting location as Franz, with the same initial task to put down the secessionists.
Popping Volkmar on his Battle Pope Chariot War Altar of Sigmar isn’t necessarily a no-brainer decision. It makes him cause Fear, Terror, and leaves him Unbreakable (so he’ll never run away), but it also significantly reduces his weapon damage and melee stats. This possibly explains why the War Altar’s only attack animations appear to be its horses headbutting people. Anyway, this trade-off means Volkmar has slightly differing roles depending on whether you invest in the War Altar.
On foot (or on horseback), he’s more of a traditional getting-stuck-in Lord. When mounted on the War Altar, he’s much more mobile but also more reliant on slamming into people with a charge to wrack up any kills. While he’s going to be less melee focused, the extra mobility means you can easily position him where his large-area buffs like Grand Hammer of Sigmar (+34 melee attack) and Grand Shield of Faith (+22% damage resistance) can be most effective. Even on foot though, the size of those auras means Volkmar can still cover four or five units (depending how closely you’re in formation) while also pounding skulls with his hammer. Grand Soulfire also seems like a pretty solid bombardment spell, raining down magical damage over (again) a wide area.
Volkmar’s leadership section of the skill tree contains further boosts for Flagellants, starting with even more of a percentage increase in weapon damage. Down the line, you can get a 30% charge boost and 50% resistance to ranged damage. That’s undoubtedly useful for the non-armoured Flagellents, but it’s also a major skill point investment for a unit type you may not be using too much at that point in the campaign.
Arch Lector
A new army commander for the Empire with a whole bunch of health and much higher defensive than melee or attack stats. These guys can provide the same buffs as Volkmar (Hammer of Sigmar, Shield of Faith), and soak up a fair amount of damage. They won’t be grinding all foes before them, but they’re perfectly capable of sticking around in a melee tar-pit and (once they have a few spells unlocked) improving the stats of all those around them.
Lost in the snow-swept wastes, the troops pray this Lector’s name isn’t Hannibal.
Like Volkmar, they can also beef up Flagellants via their skill tree. This is possibly more worthwhile for an Arch Lector as they’ll be a secondary commander in your heirachy, but it’s still tricky to justify over reliable staples like Honest Steel or beefing up the character stats.
Knights of the Blazing Sun
These guys are great. Slightly less armour and melee defence than standard Empire Knights or Reiksguard, but quicker across the ground, with a higher attack stat and a harder-hitting charge. Plus they set stuff on fire, which is bonus against Trolls, Crypt Horrors and anything else with Regenerate. They’re pretty resistant to magic (40%) too.
The loss of some armour and defence isn’t such a major problem for shock cavalry, because they should be following the standard procedure of charging into things, withdrawing, and then charging into more things.
To be able to recruit them in the campaign, you need to build a Chapterhouse of the Blazing Sun. That’s only possible in Talabheim, so keep an eye out when you conquer (or confederate) that city. The only minor disappointment here is that the unit doesn’t get any unique vocal lines ranting on about how much they adore Myrmidia.
Flagellants
Mentioned a few times already, thanks to buffs provided by Volkmar and the Arch Lectors. They can be awkward to use effectively, due to a lack of armour and tendency to melt away against quality melee opponents. Since they cost more than a basic swordsman or spearman unit, that could leave you a bit disappointed.
Their greatest boon is that Unbreakable trait. You can put them against quite literally any unit and they’ll tie it up as long as any of them are left alive (or until the enemy tries to disengage). Think of them a bit like a human Net of Amyntok or a more dangerous version of zombies, holding unpleasant things in place while you get around the sides and rear with your other troops. Boosted by additional traits (Volkmar etc) they can put out more damage and become the unit that’s doing the charging into the rear rather than the holding in place (the hammer rather than the anvil, if you like).
Protect them from missile fire though, or they’ll turn into decorative arrow holders before they can do anything useful. A tough unit to get the best from (and debatable how much it’s worth the effort when others in the roster can perform similar duties), but fun from a flavour point of view.
Free Company Militia
An interesting utility unit. You can characterise the Free Company Militia as slightly worse swordsmen with pistols and Vanguard deployment, or unmounted pistoliers with longer ranged (but weaker) weapons. That under-sells their potential a little bit though. A unit of Free Company Militia stationed near your artillery can provide reasonable protection against the usual bat, direwolf, goblin wolf riders and other light cavalry who show up to harass your machines of war.
Looks like Swashbuckler-Con is being held in the Alps this year.
Deployed with Vanguard, they can potentially cause some awkwardness with harrying shots from the flanks or launch late rear of flank attacks once the battle is joined. As long as they stay out of trouble with rival skirmishers or enemy cavalry, that is. They could possibly disrupt enemy war machines too, but faster cavalry are generally better at that role.
Cheaper than pistoliers, slightly more expensive than basic swordsmen, but with more flexibility than either of those units. Plus they all look like roguish swashbucklers, and you’ve got to love that. The weird lack of animation as the rear line try to slide into combat is a lot less lovable, mind you.
Regiments of Renown
Available through a separate recruitment menu on the grand campaign. They don’t level up through XP by design, but there’s currently a bug where the regiments don’t benefit from relevant Lord skills (such as Honest Steel). Once that’s sorted out they shouldn’t be outclassed by regular units quite so swiftly.
Sons of Sigmar (unlock at lvl 3, cost 750, upkeep 110): Swordsmen with slightly improved melee abilities and the Unbreakable trait.
Stirland’s Revenge (unlock at lvl 5, cost 825, upkeep 121): Free Company Militia with armour-piercing weapons, immunity to Fear and Terror, the Stalk trait, and improved melee/defence/leadership stats.
The Tattersouls (unlock at lvl 8, cost 775, upkeep 140): Larger unit of Flagellants (120 vs 90) with better melee attack and charge bonus.
Only Flagellants and football fans could survive topless in this weather.
The Silver Bullets (unlock at lvl 8, cost 850, upkeep 166): Handgunners who do magical damage, have slightly longer range, higher leadership and the Stalk trait.
Zintler’s Reiksguard (unlock at lvl 10, cost 1400, upkeep 331): Reiksguard Knights with Vanguard deployment, immunity to Fear/Terror and slightly improved stats (melee attack/defence and leadership).
Hammer of the Witches (unlock at lvl 13, cost 1200, upkeep 221): Great Cannon with significantly increased (and magical) missile damage of +50, with a bonus against large creatures.
The Sunmaker (unlock at lvl 13, cost 1950, upkeep 373): Helstorm Rocket Battery with a massively increased damage stat (+283). Also does fire damage.
The Royal Altdorf Gryphites (unlock at lvl 17, cost 1800, upkeep 414): Demigryph Knights (Halberd variety) who cause Terror, and have improved leadership, melee attack and melee defence stats.
Templehof Luminark (unlock at lvl 20, cost 2325, upkeep 607): A Luminark that can also cast Net of Amyntok and has the leadership-boosting Encourage aura.
Vampire Counts
Helman Ghorst
The ‘Grave’ portion of The Grim and the Grave. He’s a bit of a miserable figure who only got into this undead lark to resurrect his dead brothers. Turns out he’s pretty good at it though, because he gets a Faction-wide +20% casualty replenishment rate when he’s your Legendary Lord. In addition, every unit in his army deals poison attacks. This is slightly different from the poison attacks you’ll be used to in Total War: Warhammer though; it has a slowing effect (-36% speed, -18% vigour) but apparently no damage reduction.
Ghorst is also a scholarly type, giving a 10% increase to research rates. Unlike the other Faction boosts this one applies if you hire him as a secondary Lord, so that’s worth doing if you have somebody else in charge. To unlock Ghorst for hire in those circumstances, you have to use the ‘Dominate’ option for post-battle captives ten times. Not too difficult.
Spell-wise, he has the usual Necromancer set (Lore of Vampires) with one key difference. Rather than raising boring old zombies, Ghorst’s ‘Awaken from the Grave’ spawns Graveguard by default and (at higher level), a Wight King. His skill tree, meanwhile, contains multiple ways to project a healing/resurrection aura, either on-foot or as part of his optional Corpse Cart mount. Sticking him on a Corpse Cart slows down his movement (they’re super slow), but also gives him a higher vantage point for spellcasting. Unfortunately, there currently seems to be a bug present that prevents the casting of Gaze of Nagash while riding a Corpse Cart (that goes for regular Necromancers too).
He starts with a unit of Graveguard, a Corpse Cart, and the Renown version of Dire Wolves.
The Vampire Counts have a couple of top-tier Legendary Lords in Vlad and Mannfred von Carstein, so while Ghorst is a more appealing option than the still rather rubbish Kemmler people might want to stick to taking him as a secondary (research-buffing) Lord. You miss out on his Faction-wide bonuses, but still get the rest of his benefits.
Vlad von Carstein
Not strictly part of Grim and the Grave since he was made available for everybody, but he’s only been out a few days too so it’s worth spending a few words of praise on Mannfred’s daddy. In terms of the Warhammer lore, Vlad should be obscenely powerful; and that’s pretty much how he’s presented in the Total War universe.
Hello, I’m Vlad von Carstein and I’m better than all of you.
Warhammer Total War Release Date
He has the best melee stats of any Vampire Count leadership choice, can deploy any unit in his army in Vanguard formation, comes with the Siege Attacker trait so he can launch himself straight at walled cities, and gets a unit of Blood Knights as one of his starter three (along with some Bats and Vargheists). Once you’ve completed his quests, you’ll also have a pair of regeneration-focused items that (even with the new cap on healing) make him extremely durable. Oh, and he constantly trains every single unit in your Faction giving them loads of bonus XP.
The down-sides, if there really are any, are that his magic is just basic Necromancer stuff and he doesn’t get any mount options. Really though, the latter just makes it very obvious that you’re supposed to throw him into melee mauls as often as inhumanly possible.
If you’re wanting to pick Vlad up as a secondary Lord in the grand campaign, you need to raze Altdorf first. That pretty much means you’ll be approaching a victory lap when you get a chance to hire him.
Strigoi Ghoul King
The Ghoul King presents an interesting mix of strengths and weaknesses. He’s a strong combatant, and deals armour-piercing damage along with poison attacks. But he’s also very poorly armoured (15, since he wears no armour). That can be mitigated, however, by giving him his own pet Terrorgheist to ride around on.
Magically, he has a mixture of Lore of Death and Lore of Vampire spells (which means no Vanhel’s Danse Macabre). His unique raising spell gives you a unique of Crypt Ghouls or (overcast) Crypt Horrors, which is pretty potent as summons go.
Warhammer Total War Overcast Map
Using him purely as a spellcaster feels like a waste of those potential damage-dealing abilities, but if you do send the Ghoul King into combat you’ll need to keep an eye on him. When on foot, that lack of armour can make him vulnerable (even with regenerative abilities).
Corpse Cart
The two new Vampire Count units added by The Grim and the Grave are effectively buff machines with slightly differing roles. Using the Corpse Cart is pretty straightforward; it should be behind your lines, providing restorative and invigorating auras to your melee troops (be they zombies, skeletons, or whatever). Don’t mistake them for chariots, they’re slow and not really intended for combat.
Corpse Carts are produced by the Defiled Cairn line of buildings, and while the lowest level type just gives melee and defensive buffs (+8 in both cases), the top-tier Lodestone Cart also puts out a regenerative aura. There’s a Balefire one too which has a constant magical damage aura for enemies, but the Corpse Cart seems much better suited to its support role than as a damage-dealer. Incidentally, to actually see how far the auras extend, bring up the unit card in-game and hover over the relevant ability. It should paint a circle on the battlefield.
A couple of these behind your lines, particularly in the earlier parts of the campaign, will keep your melee line troops in the fight much longer. It might even make zombies vaguely dangerous against certain weaker opponents. If you have a Necromancer riding one, they should perform a similar role; just with some added spell support.
Mortis Engine
The cackling Mortis Engine sounds like a sneering, nasal villain from 1980s Saturday morning TV, and I love it. I’m even quite keen on the ghost horse animations showing them running perpetually in place.
If you can imagine horse noises and someone going “nyyeehahaha!” you’ve pretty much got it.
Anyway, that’s beside the point. The Mortis Engine is like a super Corpse Cart which (by default) causes both a regenerative and melee boost to your troops, while inflicting magical damage on foes. It also causes Terror and is about twice as fast as the Carts, so it has flanking prowess. Pair it up with something like Hexwraiths and watch them go to town.
If one of your Mortis Engines is about to die (or re-die, or whatever), try to maneuver it among as many enemies as possible. They go up with a magical bang. In the grand campaign you need a Necromancer’s Tower building before you can start recruiting them.
Regiments of Renown
Like the Empire, the Vampire Counts now have a few Regiments of Renown to dabble with.
The Tithe (unlock at lvl 3, cost 250, upkeep 86): A larger (150 vs 120) unit of zombies with 15% physical resistance and slightly higher stats.
The Konigstein Stalkers (unlock at lvl 3, cost 600, upkeep 81): Skeleton swordsmen with much improved armour (+40 over regular skeletons), slightly better combat prowess, and poison attacks.
The Direpack (unlock at lvl 5, cost 650, upkeep 135): Dire wolf pack with an anti-large buff, +9 leadership over regular doggies, and better melee attack/defence.
The Feasters in the Dark (unlock at lvl 8, cost 700, upkeep 158): Crypt Ghoul unit with Vanguard deployment (and Stalk), as well as more health and better stats across the board (most notably +10 melee attack).
Filthy Ghouls in a filthy swamp. Just how they like it.
The Devils of Shwartzhafen (unlock at lvl 10, cost 1475, upkeep 270): Vargheists with Vanguard deployment who also cause Terror. Better leadership and melee attack/defence than their counterparts.
Verek’s Reavers (unlock at lvl 13, cost 1400, upkeep 324): Special Black Knights (lances and barding variety) with the ability to Regenerate. Plus boosted leadership, melee attack/defence.
The Sternsmen (unlock at lvl 13, cost 1000, upkeep 203): Graveguard swordsmen who negate the charge bonus of any attacker, and can also regenerate. Like most of these units, they also have improved leadership, melee attack and defence over their regular equivalents.
The Chillgheists (unlock at lvl 17, cost 1650, upkeep 405): They’re called The Chillgheists. If that isn’t enough to make you use them, nothing is. Their ‘Chilling Aura’ inflicts a -36% speed penalty on enemies, and they have 25% magical resistance (but slightly lower physical resistance than regular Hexwraiths, 75% vs 80%). Slightly increased melee attack too, but the Chillgheist’s weapons don’t inflict fire damage (they’re entirely too chill).
The Claw of Nagash (unlock at lvl 20, cost 1600, upkeep 540): Statistically the same as a regular Mortis Engine, but has the same ‘Chilling Aura’ described above and 25% magic resistance.